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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffThe_Emperor_Of_Television Date: Dec 12, 2013 9:15pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

I can't find a listing for it on the US copyright office, though it's possible it's listed under a different title than what I searched for. Probably PD, but then I've been wrong on copyright so many times that I can't say for sure.

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Poster: Freddie Jaye Date: Dec 13, 2013 8:16pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

This link will take you to the exact item I am asking about. Hope it helps.

http://www.amazon.com/Menotti-Amahl-Night-Visitors/dp/B000VZAV5I/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&;ie=UTF8&qid=1386994710&sr=1-1&keywords=amahl+and+the+night+visitors

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Poster: cosmico Date: Dec 12, 2013 9:53pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

I've been trying to confirm the status of some items of late and while they aren't listed as still under copyright in any of the usual resources, they also seem to be in question. In other words, if one is not a copyright lawyer or doesn't have one in the family, it's hard to be 100% certain, IMHO. I do think Moongleam has been wise to refer to Alpha Video as a probable reference for confirmation of PD in many cases, although Alpha also had to pull a few titles as I recall.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffThe_Emperor_Of_Television Date: Dec 12, 2013 11:28pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

The only reason I am uncertain about "Amahl and the Night Visitors" is because the music for the opera itself was copyrighted separately in 1951 (while the TV special itself wasn't copyrighted), and I don't know if that would affect whether the 1955 TV production can be uploaded or not. Certainly the 1955 production itself is PD, but I don't know if the music would cause a problem.

The problem with the Alpha rule is simple: Hundreds of US television series aired in the 1950s (for example, DuMont alone aired over 140 of them), and there's probably many which haven't been issued by the budget companies simply because they are too busy with other shows.

But as I said, I know little about copyright. Maybe the 1955 version of "Amahl and the Night Visitors" is OK, maybe it isn't. I don't know. I have no idea, because although the broadcast itself is PD, I don't know if the music issues would be a problem.

This post was modified by The_Emperor_Of_Television on 2013-12-13 07:28:04

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Poster: cosmico Date: Dec 13, 2013 1:41am
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

Alpha is a fair rule-of-thumb in many cases, but not always definitive, which was all I was saying.

Some folks think that just because something is "old" then it must be PD, and that's flawed thinking. The fact that this is an opera with a separate copyright is a good point.

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Poster: Freddie Jaye Date: Dec 13, 2013 8:03pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors

Yes, it is, Cosmico, and that's why I am asking.

The 12/24/51 version here
https://archive.org/details/AmahlNightVisitors12241951

is apparently PD. And the Emperor suggests that the '55 version should be PD also, but raises a question about the music.

On the other hand, both performances use exactly the same score and libretto -- so if it's not a problem in the first one ('51), I don't see how it could be a problem in the second one. (Just some food for thought.)

This copyright-law crap makes one's head spin.



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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffThe_Emperor_Of_Television Date: Dec 14, 2013 2:19am
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

As I said, I don't know whether the music would be a problem...you'd be better to ask Video-Cellar because he knows much more about copyright than me.

I wish I had never replied to this thread...I've probably screwed up completely as usual.

This post was modified by The_Emperor_Of_Television on 2013-12-14 10:19:01

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Poster: Freddie Jaye Date: Dec 14, 2013 3:24pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

I have contacted VC directly and am awaiting his reply. Thanks for the suggestion.

Christmas is the season for miracles, so I was hoping that someone could give me a nice, clean YES or NO response. Alas, this is the thicket of copyright law - so maybe I should go back to wishing for a shiny new Schwinn. :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffThe_Emperor_Of_Television Date: Dec 14, 2013 4:17pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

I am sorry I made things worse.

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Poster: cosmico Date: Dec 15, 2013 10:27pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

Matt: As ALF would say, "No problemo!" :)

Attachment: alf2.jpg

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Poster: Freddie Jaye Date: Dec 16, 2013 12:55pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

Same here -- things aren't worse; they're just taking longer to resolve than I had hoped. What little I've learned about copyright law (via the Archive) can be summed up thusly: (A) it's a mess (B)it makes no sense and (C)there's almost always a very big "BUT...", even when the answer is basically yes.

Haven't heard from VC yet; if I get a thumbs-up, I'll rip'n'post the '55 version ASAP.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to kick this matter around with me.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffVideo-Cellar Date: Dec 18, 2013 1:18pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

It should be OK. The music was registered after the original broadcast as an "unpublished" work by the composer. As this was a work commissioned by NBC on a work-for-hire basis I am pretty sure that music registration is just a red herring.

This post was modified by Video-Cellar on 2013-12-18 21:18:50

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffThe_Emperor_Of_Television Date: Dec 18, 2013 4:13pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

So glad to hear I was wrong!

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Poster: Freddie Jaye Date: Dec 18, 2013 7:02pm
Forum: classic_tv Subject: Re: Amahl and the Night Visitors (Video-Cellar, can you help?)

Thanks, VC. I'll have it up in a day or so.

The 1951 version already here has a truncated performance of Christmas carols. this one has a separate six-minute clip of songs by the Columbus Boychoir. I'll put that up too.